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mattgibson
Joined: 11 Nov 2009
Posts: 601
Location: London
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:36 am
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Feed the beast now, your images will be old in 6 months and he will still be hungry - maybe that is when the "new" content from now will sell.
I think Shane's timing issue goes back a bit, you used to be able to think "If I submit on a Thursday, it will be reviewed Sunday and hits buyers Monday morning" - not any more. |
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ruxpriencdiam
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 26287
Location: Third Stone from the Sun
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:36 am
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Seasonal shots are about timing, environmental also are timing as are other events such as elections and politics.
See what i am talking about? |
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semmickphoto
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 6532
Location: Stuck between a shutter and a hard place
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:37 am
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| mattgibson wrote: | Feed the beast now, your images will be old in 6 months and he will still be hungry - maybe that is when the "new" content from now will sell.
I think Shane's timing issue goes back a bit, you used to be able to think "If I submit on a Thursday, it will be reviewed Sunday and hits buyers Monday morning" - not any more. |
Ok, I get that. Yeah, thats indeed true. It seems my reviews are now after 5 working days. But its hard to plan. So now I just submit and hope for the best. |
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semmickphoto
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 6532
Location: Stuck between a shutter and a hard place
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:47 am
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| ruxpriencdiam wrote: | Seasonal shots are about timing, environmental also are timing as are other events such as elections and politics.
See what i am talking about? |
Yes, I see that, but what is the timing on a photo of a girl?
See what I am getting at? :) |
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ruxpriencdiam
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 26287
Location: Third Stone from the Sun
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:59 am
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| semmickphoto wrote: | | ruxpriencdiam wrote: | Seasonal shots are about timing, environmental also are timing as are other events such as elections and politics.
See what i am talking about? |
Yes, I see that, but what is the timing on a photo of a girl?
See what I am getting at? :) |
On that there is no timing unless she is doing a political event or something else that is coming up where she could be used. |
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rinder99
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 39249
Location: Contact www.rinderart.com/Books and Workshops www.rindersmithphotography.com Youtube/rinder
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:56 pm
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For years I always uploaded on thurs night or fri morning and was Live on Monday. Thats gone now. |
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peteklinger
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 1030
Location: Great Place By a Great Lake
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:01 pm
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| rinder99 wrote: | | For years I always uploaded on thurs night or fri morning and was Live on Monday. Thats gone now. |
Maybe you can explain this one that I see over and over and I don't understand. Keep in mind 10,000 new images a day, everything will sink!
"It doesn't get any sales in the first couple of weeks and sinks."
Is it possible that some images don't get sales in the first couple of weeks, because they didn't attract buyers and sink for good reasons?
You know what I mean. Good pictures sell, weak pictures don't.
All this day of the week trick and getting sale right away or they are relegated to some dark dungeon and never seen again, kind of sounds like a photo rank conspiracy.
10,000 new images a day! Of course the competition is going to bury anything new. But old photos that are established seem to be an advantage at this point. So unlike, feed the beast, I wonder if the new mantra will be, protect that old collection! |
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rinder99
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 39249
Location: Contact www.rinderart.com/Books and Workshops www.rindersmithphotography.com Youtube/rinder
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:12 pm
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Pete, One thing I know for certain....The longer we do this the less we know.I for one need to see new Images selling along with old Like it was.Otherwise. Why submit? Theres no shortage of new sites to give a try to. |
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strotter13
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Posts: 1683
Location: Nevada
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:41 pm
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| semmickphoto wrote: | @ Strotter,
How do you know it was timing was the factor? I mean, timing for what?
If you submit easter eggs photos after easter is bad timing. But what is bad timing for a photo of a gal? Or good timing? I dont understand.
Thanks
Ron |
Ron
by timing I mean a couple of things. The first is what you had stated, of course I don't want to submit easter images the day of or day after easter. The second is timing of the market. Something I learned from Laurin and Dave was about getting your images accepted so they are first on the new list on Monday morning. This is very hard to do with review times being so long and unpredictable now. Also you have to account that images may take anywhere from 24 to 72 hours to even show up in the new list. I want my images to show up bright and early Monday morning when a buyer has come to work, not friday afternoon when they are leaving for the weekend (this is assuming a designer or buyer works a regular work week). The other type of timing would be just a random type of timing that is pure luck based as well. If I am submitting photos of a basset hound isolated on white then hopefully they will show up right at the top of the "newest first" list when a buyer is looking for new fresh images of a basset hound isolated on white. There are many variables with the timing, probably some that I haven't even thought of. But the reason I feel like timing is the third part of the triangle is because of the following: From my experience I can take two identical images, keyworded and described EXACTLY the same. Those two images could then be submitted at different times, one has excellent "Timing" and the other has bad "Timing" The difference in my total revenue made from each image over the preceding six months could be 10, 20 if not even over a 100 dollars or more.
Now let me go into a little more detail here. I also feel that the quality side of the triangle will definetly set the cap on my earnings for an image. What I mean by this is that I am limited by my artistic talent. For example, I could produce the best image that I have ever made, it could be keyworded and described perfectly and I could have some very lucky timing and lets say make 100 dollars off this image in the first year. I am limited by the quality of the image. Because I can't produce images (I am not talented enough/do not posses the talent that other artists do) of the quality that Laurin Rinder does then I am limited. A quick scenario (this isn't true, just a theoretical example) Rinder and I set out to do a test. We both seperately create our very best image of the exact same model doing the exact same thing. We keyword our images exactly the same and submit them at the exact same time (and it just so happens we are really lucky and we get the same review and they are reviewed within minutes of each other) and show up right next to each other on the newest first list. I would be limited because I obviously can create as good of an image as Laurin can. So just throwing numbers out here, I may make 50 dollars per year off of an my image, and Laurin may make 500 dollars per year off of his.
Now this also rolls into my next point. There is another side to this stock triangle that I have been leaving in the dark. That is creating a customer base. If I am very talented buyers will see my images and then search through my port. They will like what they see and bookmark me. They may come check my port every week or so to see what new work I have posted, and purchase new images. This would definetly help to offset the timing side of the triangle.
Anyhow, now I am going on and on, so I hope I answered your question :) |
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rinder99
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 39249
Location: Contact www.rinderart.com/Books and Workshops www.rindersmithphotography.com Youtube/rinder
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:47 pm
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Well said shane. and I know for certain Buyers bookmark certain people. |
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strotter13
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Posts: 1683
Location: Nevada
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:56 pm
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| ruxpriencdiam wrote: | | semmickphoto wrote: | | ruxpriencdiam wrote: | Seasonal shots are about timing, environmental also are timing as are other events such as elections and politics.
See what i am talking about? |
Yes, I see that, but what is the timing on a photo of a girl?
See what I am getting at? :) |
On that there is no timing unless she is doing a political event or something else that is coming up where she could be used. |
My experience completely disagrees with you on this Barry. From my experience I have done just random little dress up shoots with my Daughters (mainly just for fun and because I wanted images of my daughters). I have about ten million images of them in my port, way to much, but that is besides the point. I have done two shoots that are basically the same. Same amount of images, I usually pick ten or so to put up. Same categories keywords etc. All just isolated images of a child, pretty much doing nothing, just looking cute. One set sells like crazy, the other doesn't. It was the random luck of timing. Some buyer happened to see the images when they were at the top of the new list, loved them and bought them, immediately boosting there popularity which allowed them to gain more sells. The other ones didn't get seen by the right buyer at the right time and they didn't take off and hardly ever sold. I know this because I don't have many buyers that bookmark my gallery (I rarely get image gallery views). The photos are of the same subject doing the same thing, the only thing that is different is timing.
Barry do you think this image of yours is your third most popular image because you keyworded it perfectly or because it is the greatest image ever of some cans? I think it is there because of timing.
And the same goes for me. This image isn't my most popular image because I got the most amazing shot of a pot of boiling water ever (I was boiling some water for my french press coffee maker, threw on my on camera flash and took a couple of shots) or because I did the best job keywording it. It is there because of timing. Here are the keywords the buyers used to find it when buying it: boiling (33%); water (33%); boiling water (24%); pot (7%)
I do not have any amazing fantastic hidden keywords that the other images do not have that are behind it in popularity. The only differences is that mine had good timing, and was dl'd several times when it first came out, which shot it to the top and caused it to sell well.
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strotter13
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Posts: 1683
Location: Nevada
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:01 pm
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| peteklinger wrote: | | rinder99 wrote: | | For years I always uploaded on thurs night or fri morning and was Live on Monday. Thats gone now. |
You know what I mean. Good pictures sell, weak pictures don't.
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Good pictures sell, weak pictures don't. I disagree. I have had good pictures not sell and weak pictures sell. My weak picture of a pot of boiling water was ranked #1 for a boiling water search (out of 6700 images) and is now ranked #2. Its much more complex then good and bad images. Yes good images help, but that is only 1/3 of the battle (in my opinion). |
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semmickphoto
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 6532
Location: Stuck between a shutter and a hard place
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:15 pm
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Thanks Strotter. Makes sense. I understand what you meant now. |
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canalenes
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 2205
Location: Orygun
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:21 pm
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| strotter13 wrote: | | peteklinger wrote: | | rinder99 wrote: | | For years I always uploaded on thurs night or fri morning and was Live on Monday. Thats gone now. |
You know what I mean. Good pictures sell, weak pictures don't.
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Good pictures sell, weak pictures don't. I disagree. I have had good pictures not sell and weak pictures sell. My weak picture of a pot of boiling water was ranked #1 for a boiling water search (out of 6700 images) and is now ranked #2. Its much more complex then good and bad images. Yes good images help, but that is only 1/3 of the battle (in my opinion). |
Yes,, I agree it's complex, but I have to disagree with your reasoning for your boiling water pic being so popular. Ive been looking thru the boiling water pics, and your is the most closeup and vivid one of the subject. The one to the right of yours is a closeup, too, but it doesn't show the steam and isn't aat as hard a boil as yours is. Yours is a hot, mean pot of boiling water, and the one next to it could be cold water with air bubbles. Your shot more strongly defines the subject. That's why it has remained popular, in my opinion.
As a side note, I find it weird yours didn't show up with a relevant search ......I looked at the first four or fives pages and didn't see it. Relevant doesn't always work right.
Last edited by canalenes on Thu May 31, 2012 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ruxpriencdiam
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 26287
Location: Third Stone from the Sun
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:34 pm
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Shane i have no idea and i really dont pay attention to it that much maybe it was uploaded during an environmental summit i dont know i just do it and go from there except for seasonal shots. |
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