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Pete Bax · Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1238 Location: Brighton England

Can I suggest a better way than the one we are using at the moment.
Many beginners are sending good photos that are being rejected because of poor photoshopping and you expect a beginner to suddenly become an expert in photoshopping!

These files that need expert photoshopping should be placed in a file and some of the expert photoshoppers here should fix them, why you could even let some of the designers do it.
Then the photoshopped file should be resubmitted and the person who as photoshopped it should get so much a sale say 5 cents. That way beginners can see how they should have submitted photo in the first place. The photoshopper gets a little income for his expertese and the designer gets a perfect job. Thats three birds with one stone. You will get the quality you are seeking and I think it will improve relationships between beginners and experts alike, making this a more enjoyable plcae to be.

PhotoEuphoria · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:50 am

Since it takes me 1/125 of a second to shoot an image and anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour to photshop it, hows about I get 20/cents per download and I'll PS all the images you want. ;)

I get emails all the time asking how to do something in PS. I'm sure many photographers do since this is such an enormous part of the entire image creation process. I'm sure if you just sitemail someone you feel could help you or post a request in the forums, you will receive plenty of help personalized to your particular needs. :) -jaimie

dkgilbey · Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 730 Location: Hampshire - UK

Why not let people improve their own photoshopping skills to a level where they can re-submit their own work - we have a forum to help others in that regard.

Tips & tricks

I don't think I'd go to a clothes store, for example, and buy a shirt where although it's cheaper, I have to stitch the arms on... (another of my great analogies...)

Designers want finished product that's ready to hit the floor running - personally I don't have enough time to work on my own images/ideas let alone spend time fixing others.
Everything I know about photoshop has been trial & error, for me that's been a good way to learn, I know that there are lots of reasonably priced books available for the beginner photoshopper to get started.
I say, have a go yourself - then when your finished work gets accepted you can take ALL the credit (monetary & otherwise).

Just my thoughts on this topic...

veinglory · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 1223

I would love to see some before and after stuff about fixing common probles, with a description of what was done. That would be a much more reasonable 'ask'. Just something to give me a starter on the magic or white balance and saturation.

Currently I just delete rather than fix ;)

Phildate · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:34 am

I believe there is a tendency in the 21st century for us to want everything instantly - answers, skills, money, etc...I remember someone asking if they could have a plug-in on the upload page to give keywords and Stuart politely reminded us that there are these things called BOOKS and one in particular called a Thesaurus.

It has taken me many years to get my photography and photoshop skills to the standard that they now are. I have read books, shot lots of film, thrown a lot away, been on courses, subscribed to magazines, been part of web forums and now joined the microstock industry. But it seems that there are some people who, after just buying a digital camera, feel that they should be selling their work, jumping those all important learning steps. Maybe these people shouldn't be looking for an amazing quick fix, instead relying on rather old fashioned methods of practice, research, peseverance, etc...

So, if your camera skills aren't great and photoshop skills are lacking I suggest you LEARN them, in which ever way suits you best. It might be a course, it could be books, it could be magazines but it will definitely need practice and lots of it. Maybe along the way you'll get a decent image to upload but I don't think that beginners should take it for granted that they can pick up photography and start to make money from it straight away.

My two cents worth...

StuartE · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:39 am

If a shot takes more than 10 minutes to bring up to spec, even really more than 5, it needs to be something really special, otherwise I'll go to the next shot instead - however, I'm confident that I can get a lot done in that 5-10 minutes too... as I look at it, if my time is worth $60 an hour, and the average image up here in your gallery is worth $4 over a year, it needs to pay it's way - even down to the point where I'll weigh up my rejection against whether it's worth re-editing, or just forgetting the shot...

It would be an interesting exercise, though - one, to see people's different takes on each image - that could vary hugely - the other would be to show what can be done with a little knowledge of photoshop - the biggest drawback would be the bandwidth - we'd need to have full files to edit them properly - that also means the 'photoshopper' now has a full size copy of your image, without having to download it and pay for it - and who are some of the best photoshoppers - designers, who may flaunt the system - your have said yourself, Pete, that people may 'want' those rejected images...

Cheers,
Stuart

shutterstock · Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 1881 Location: New York, NY

rodehi · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:11 am

The fact is I was basically forced to learn photoshop(at least some),but am I angry about that?Not at all!Now I can produce much much higher quality work,not just for my stock stuff but for all my photos!The stock game is just a sideline thing for me and my work,rafting season is quickly approaching and Im going to make a ton of cash with my camera.I will feel much better though this year knowing that I can get the most out of my photos......Ron

PhotoEuphoria · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:28 pm

fncdigital · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:34 pm

Thats some of the things i refer to in the Bad Editing Thread in Tips and Tricks.

StuartE · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:13 pm

Hence the 'something really special' comment, Jaime - but an 8.2mp perfect portrait is a far different piece of work to a simple stock piece - likewise, I'll spend way way more time on a composite image than I would on a product shot, but that's also for my own 'entertainment' - I'm trying to relate this to Pete's suggestion of editing other peoples images for stock - if it needed a quick and easy fix, I'd do it - but if I'm going to spend time on a shot, it's going to be on one of my own - likewise when showing people how to edit an image - I'll do a quick, rough demonstration, not spend the time it would take to make a small resolution file absolutely perfect - but it will show them what can be done... and like others, I get asked a lot of times about how to 'do that', be it cloning, colour correction, sharpening, etc... I don't mind, I like helping people, but at the end of the day, I've had 24 hours to spend... some sleeping, some working, some living - we all balance 'em how we choose, ultimately... if I spend too many of them editing other peoples shots for no, or small returns, I've spent them badly...

Cheers,
Stuart

PhotoEuphoria · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:51 pm

fncdigital · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:19 pm

bottom line, that kind of time is best spend on your own work, if not,

my rate ranges from 2000-3000 (better stuart? LOL) an hour for that type of work.

we can negotiate.

In the mean time....

http://www.planetphotoshop.com/tutorials.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321115627/qid=1111626996/sr=2-3/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_3/102-9292667-9495365

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0321227999/qid=1111626996/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/102-9292667-9495365?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764516515/qid=1111627071/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-9292667-9495365

LuvThatVert:) · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:46 pm

Pete Bax that seems like a nice suggestion and full of good intentions, but I see the PhotoShopers want too much money for their hour of work and now they might even want chocolates.

Things could sound more favorable for your suggestion, if the picture in question was, a recent shot of an image of Neil Armtrong footsteps on the moon and the photographer invested three weeks in the round trip and the photoshop expert spent only an hour to fix it.
Now one could allocate a bigger payout for the photographer.

My idea to improve on your suggestion.
How about John creates a new forum, call it Cupids Forum.
If we could, marry all the single Photographers with the single PhotoShopers, there would be some great PhotoStock submiters; every image would be perfect.
Wow! I managed all the above w/o picking on you.

StuartE · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:53 pm

You were bought cheap on Ebay, Dewayne... :-) The going rate for photo manipulation was $1 a minute, oh, three, four years ago... and you're good, you should be charging at least that, if not more - I've seen work done by $20 an hour monkeys at a pro lab round the corner, and it's honestly shocking - the guy who owns the place uses them to proof his own shots, and then works the chosen shot up himself later... lol

Incidentally, does anyone else 'charge out' on an hourly basis for photoshoots? How much, and how do you figure the charges? I work on that $60 an hour, but load it if I am expecting to do a lot of editing afterwards - e.g. charge $80 an hour for a three hour shoot, and allow an hour of editing/cropping, etc afterwards - people just don't seem to be willing to pay for 'afterwork'... I do a wedding/party package for $600 for 2-4 hours on site, plus the afterwork, and images on a CD - prints cost enough to double my printing cost and running around when the clients choose...

Cheers,
Stuart