Shutterstock Photographer Forum :: View topic - refunds

wmsimmons · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 314

Having three of six animations "refunded" I agree there needs to be some stricter guidelines. There is also an issue of trust. I want to trust that Shutterstock is protecting us and our work. I am a little concerned there hasn't been any communication from Admin. to ease our fears, listen to our concerns. I'm still waiting for the footage page to be updated with new videos and it's been several months since we were informed it would happen "next week". Moishe, I'm pretty sure you don't make policy, but please let higher-ups know our concerns and communicate with us, please.

Lastly, please don't run a test on my videos. Or anyone elses for that matter. It really gets our hopes up when we see a sale. It's a confirmation that we are on the right track. Coversely, a refund dashes our spirits and hurts our pride. Thanks for "listening" Moishe. I know you are out there somewhere!

bobb · Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 162

Valid concerns and suggestions expressed in this thread. I hope that we get a response from Moishe soon.
-B

divemonkey · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:13 am

That's a very good call! Hopefully it's just a teething process they're working through... speaking of which - it's kinda like stealing candy from a baby!!!

imagist · Site Admin Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 246

Shutterstock only gives footage refunds in cases where a footage purchase was made with a stolen credit card. Often we figure it out quickly, and are proactive in initiating the refund. Occasionally the card company approaches us with evidence first. In either of these cases, where the actual cardholder did not purchase from Shutterstock, we refund the purchase price and recapture the commission from the submitter.

This happens with photos as well, but we absorb the loss in that case. We have never taken commissions back from Shutterstock photographers on refunds or fraud for our subscription photo product.

Furthermore, we have not yet found an example of a footage clip that was bought from Shutterstock and is being used after a refund was given.

The credit card companies are starting to introduce more sophisticated fraud measures (secure ID built into cards, passwords, one-use-numbers, Verified By Visa, etc.). We are optimistic that over the next couple of years, fraud will be greatly reduced.

Shutterstock

varius · Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:25 am

That explains it, yes. Thanks for the reply.

I was aware that credit card fraud was a problem, but more than half a dozen refunds within the last few weeks, one of them even after six months and all from credit card fraud...? Am I the only one who's scared now?

bobb · Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 162

Thanks imagist for Shutterstock's response...

That's a very interesting revelation regarding refunds. So (if I understand correctly) every Shutterstock footage refund is the result of credit card fraud and there is no other instance in which Shutterstock would initiate a refund.

I (naively) had no idea it was such a large problem, but then again, the volume of credit card charges Shutterstock has to process on a daily basis must be massive.

But doesn't that still mean that the perpetrator, still got away with downloading (stealing) our footage clips without really paying for them? Is there no way of getting these criminals?

-B

(no varius, I'm more angry than scared.)

skylight · Joined: 05 Feb 2007 Posts: 19

With this kind of situation would it not be better that a credit purchase system be implemented? That way the purchasers credibilty is vetted before hand. Not that different from the subscription model that is already used for the stills.

Producers will then not be left wondering if all their hard work of creating clips and submitting (not to mention trust) is being compromised.

Skylight

imagist · Site Admin Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 246

Any credit system would still rely on a credit card purchase of credits, so we would still end up with people who fraudulently purchase credits and then use them to download something, and therefore we would still end up refunding the rightful cardholder for the purchase of those credits. Credits abstract the payment process but would not add any safety or change the situation.

Please keep in mind that our refund rate is extremely low and that we work with the card companies as much as possible to prevent these type of transactions before they take place.