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Can negative temperatures cause damage in a RAW file?
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thomland


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 162
Post Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:53 pm     Reply with quote

I shot some pictures of a backlit tree with snow on it but when I edited, the sky looked like it was decompressed or something. Instead of soft graduated colors you could see lines between the different levels. Have never noticed this before on other pictures and it was not hard editing either. It was maybe -10 degrees. I was out of the car for less then 10 minutes.

Anyone knows about this problem. Could something suddenly happen with lightroom to cause this?

Regards Thomas
jeffbanke


Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 17468
Location: www.xlr8photo.com, The real California
Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:53 pm     Reply with quote

Unlikely to be anything to do with the sensor. If you had been shooting JPG, you could have created it with all kinds of stuff turned on in the camera! Sharpening, vivid, etc.
So, since you shot RAW highly likely you created it in post processing,
thomland


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 162
Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:25 pm     Reply with quote

jeffbanke wrote:
Unlikely to be anything to do with the sensor. If you had been shooting JPG, you could have created it with all kinds of stuff turned on in the camera! Sharpening, vivid, etc.
So, since you shot RAW highly likely you created it in post processing,


Yes but I have never had this problem before. I converted it in Lightroom, exported as tiff for Photoshop, then back to lightroom for burning JPG.
Not any havy editing. Tried to do it over again but no luck.

Regards Thomas
silverwebs


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Seattle, Washington
Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:23 am     Reply with quote

I shoot in that type of weather fairly regularly. Without seeing the image, I'm guessing this is an extremely contrasty part of the image. It's not the cold, it's the lighting/contrast/other conditions that create issues.

If you have a 100% crop and a small thumbnail of the whole image that would help.
pharm


Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9406
Location: Never quite sure
Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:47 pm     Reply with quote

thomland wrote:
...Instead of soft graduated colors you could see lines between the different levels...


It's called banding. Has nothing to do with temp. It's the bane of 8 bit images (there are not enough "steps" between brightness levels). Difficult to get rid of sometimes.
thomland


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 162
Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:02 pm     Reply with quote

pharm wrote:
thomland wrote:
...Instead of soft graduated colors you could see lines between the different levels...


It's called banding. Has nothing to do with temp. It's the bane of 8 bit images (there are not enough "steps" between brightness levels). Difficult to get rid of sometimes.


Ok. What can I do to improve it.
And is this coman in RAW files. Is not RAW supposed to have more levels. Would jpg do the same. Will it help ith a new camera in fx format?

Thanks for answer pharm :)
jeffbanke


Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 17468
Location: www.xlr8photo.com, The real California
Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:40 pm     Reply with quote

Perry, unless he is shooting with some arcain camera, his RAW files are going to be either 12 bit or possibly 14 bit files like my D300!

So to answer the question, you should not see anything that resembles banding when you are processing a RAW image!
You must have something that you have changed in lightroom.
Sorry I don't use it, using NX and PS to do everything, so I don't understand why you are going back and forth between Lightroom and PS, I mean, you can save as a jpg from PS so what is the purpose of going back to lightroom to do that?

BTW, you have some really pretty images in your port!
thomland


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 162
Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:57 pm     Reply with quote

jeffbanke wrote:
Perry, unless he is shooting with some arcain camera, his RAW files are going to be either 12 bit or possibly 14 bit files like my D300!

So to answer the question, you should not see anything that resembles banding when you are processing a RAW image!
You must have something that you have changed in lightroom.
Sorry I don't use it, using NX and PS to do everything, so I don't understand why you are going back and forth between Lightroom and PS, I mean, you can save as a jpg from PS so what is the purpose of going back to lightroom to do that?

BTW, you have some really pretty images in your port!


Thanks jeffbank. That made me a bit happyer. :)

I shot with a D80. Is it possible to set the camera to 8 bit in settings menu by misstake. Ore any other place along the way. I resized it in PS and saved a copy in Lightroom. Guess I could have done that in Lightroom as well. I some how feel it beahves like a JPG in a way but it says NEF.

Regards Thomas
thomland


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 162
Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:39 pm     Reply with quote

thomland wrote:
jeffbanke wrote:
Perry, unless he is shooting with some arcain camera, his RAW files are going to be either 12 bit or possibly 14 bit files like my D300!

So to answer the question, you should not see anything that resembles banding when you are processing a RAW image!
You must have something that you have changed in lightroom.
Sorry I don't use it, using NX and PS to do everything, so I don't understand why you are going back and forth between Lightroom and PS, I mean, you can save as a jpg from PS so what is the purpose of going back to lightroom to do that?


Just checked. It´s 12-bit.
Come to think of.. the object was backlit by the sun. Could all the light cause some problem in the lens. The gradings follow a circular curve like the lense?

BTW, you have some really pretty images in your port!


Thanks jeffbank. That made me a bit happyer. :)

I shot with a D80. Is it possible to set the camera to 8 bit in settings menu by misstake. Ore any other place along the way. I resized it in PS and saved a copy in Lightroom. Guess I could have done that in Lightroom as well. I some how feel it beahves like a JPG in a way but it says NEF.

Regards Thomas
jeffbanke


Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 17468
Location: www.xlr8photo.com, The real California
Post Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:19 pm     Reply with quote

Thomas,
I suggest you read the manual and you find that Nikon has a habit of making the less than best selection for defaults. I found this out with both the D100 and the D300. One of the biggest mistakes they make is to set the RAW to compressed. Which is ridiculous because they are making just another variation of a JPG that way. They have on the D300 three posibilities, RAW lossless compressed, compressed and uncompressed. They claim there is no degredation of image with the first, ALMOST none with the second and of course none with the uncompressed! They lie about the first 2! My D100 had the same problems my D70s had with blotchy blue skies when I switched from uncompressed to the default of compressed.
Another area they screw up on is setting the default at 12 bit instead of 14 bit (D300).

So once again read the manual and turn everything off that you can.
pharm


Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9406
Location: Never quite sure
Post Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:51 am     Reply with quote

jeffbanke wrote:
Perry, unless he is shooting with some arcain camera, his RAW files are going to be either 12 bit or possibly 14 bit files like my D300!



Jeff, I'm assuming he only saw the banding in the jpg. According to his workflow, he edits the tiff in PS, THEN imports it back into Lightroom to convert it to a jpg (although, like you, I don't understand that step). Could it be that in converting into a jpg in LR, he's using a higher compression (lower quality) setting? I may be wrong (I frequently am).
thomland


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 162
Post Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:28 am     Reply with quote

pharm wrote:
jeffbanke wrote:
Perry, unless he is shooting with some arcain camera, his RAW files are going to be either 12 bit or possibly 14 bit files like my D300!



Jeff, I'm assuming he only saw the banding in the jpg. According to his workflow, he edits the tiff in PS, THEN imports it back into Lightroom to convert it to a jpg (although, like you, I don't understand that step). Could it be that in converting into a jpg in LR, he's using a higher compression (lower quality) setting? I may be wrong (I frequently am).


No. It it´s in the RAW file as well. It gets stronger in the jpg. I like to see the resoult at once in when rezising so that I wont have to reduze more than enough. In lightroom I have to export it first.
pharm


Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9406
Location: Never quite sure
Post Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:24 am     Reply with quote

Jeff's probably right then. It must be a camera setting concerning bit depth or something really weird in LR. I don't use LR either so I can't offer much advice about it.
jeffbanke


Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 17468
Location: www.xlr8photo.com, The real California
Post Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:34 pm     Reply with quote

Perry and I often get each other doubting ourselves, so while pondering a thought occurred to me, could it be your monitor?

Another could be your RAW processor, maybe you accidentally switched it from 16 bit to 8 bit, even before you are processing in PS.

Why not post an image here and eliminate that!

Then cut out the step of going back to LR, and just save as a JPG from PS!

If you have checked your camera manual, set all settings to optimal, not default, and checked all the above, and still have the problem, send Perry or me a PM we may be able to help you some more offline.
One suggestion is you could send someone one of your images to evaluate/process and send back to you to comapre results.
If all else fails, and it turns out that it is not the LR processing you may have to send the camera back, but lets hope you don't have to go that far.
thomland


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 162
Post Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:33 pm     Reply with quote

jeffbanke wrote:
Perry and I often get each other doubting ourselves, so while pondering a thought occurred to me, could it be your monitor?

Another could be your RAW processor, maybe you accidentally switched it from 16 bit to 8 bit, even before you are processing in PS.

Why not post an image here and eliminate that!

Then cut out the step of going back to LR, and just save as a JPG from PS!

If you have checked your camera manual, set all settings to optimal, not default, and checked all the above, and still have the problem, send Perry or me a PM we may be able to help you some more offline.
One suggestion is you could send someone one of your images to evaluate/process and send back to you to comapre results.
If all else fails, and it turns out that it is not the LR processing you may have to send the camera back, but lets hope you don't have to go that far.


My god!

Opened it in PS3 onverter and on the botom of the window it says 8-bit. Does this meen it´s from the camera.? It´s no difference if I cange this to 16bit though.
 
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