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hhltdave5
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 24311
Location: Our Stock, Food & Portrait photography books at www.rindersmithphotography.com
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:15 pm
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The shots that I would stick with and work on are the meditation shots with the blond. They are much better than the other shots you have presented.
They are very close to what the reviewers are looking for. The advice that Russ gave is very good advice. In many situations give the shot a bit of breathing room.
Here is a video that Laurin and I did during one of our workshops in Kauai, Hawaii. As you watch it you will see several shots similar to your meditation shots. Notice how they are composed leaving some room.
You will also see some of the techniques we use for fill light mainly using reflectors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP6LXKF2UYM
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mauijon
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 4311
Location: Maui, Hawaii
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:17 pm
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I think a rule of thumb is: If more than just head and shoulders are used, then back up and include the whole body. If just a head and shoulders shot, then you can also move in and get some tight crops as well.
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jeffbanke
Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 17518
Location: www.xlr8photo.com, The real California
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:12 am
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The shadows are easily tamed by the use of reflectors at the time of shooting
Also always try to create a catch light in the models eye like so
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semmickphoto
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 6632
Location: Stuck between a shutter and a hard place
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:47 am
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Thanks all. Going to have another attempt, need to find a model in Ireland. The blonde is a good friend of mine but lives in the Netherlands.
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dustine
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 925
Location: You're in my viewfinder...
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:06 pm
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| semmickphoto wrote: | | I have learned that on people cropping body parts is accepted because the human brain completes it. |
That may be but there are rules concerning the cropping of body parts if they must be cropped. I'm pretty sure cropping part of the human brain goes against those rules. If your going to crop the brain, better to crop the whole brain like maybe when you want to only focus on the face or the eye.
Super Catch Lights in that eye Jeff!
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robhainer
Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 2914
Location: Dallas, GA, USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:43 pm
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Go back, redo the first shot of the same woman meditating. Then take a horizontal of it with some more environment around with her at the left third. Then try some more variations of that, and get them in focus.
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semmickphoto
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 6632
Location: Stuck between a shutter and a hard place
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:48 pm
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| dustine wrote: | | semmickphoto wrote: | | I have learned that on people cropping body parts is accepted because the human brain completes it. |
That may be but there are rules concerning the cropping of body parts if they must be cropped. I'm pretty sure cropping part of the human brain goes against those rules. If your going to crop the brain, better to crop the whole brain like maybe when you want to only focus on the face or the eye.
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I am sorry but check out any fashion magazine. Chopping the top of a head off is currently so common as to be the norm. And when I check the internet on cropping body parts, cropping the head is considered to be completely acceptable.
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tverkhovynets
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 753
Location: Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:59 pm
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| semmickphoto wrote: | | dustine wrote: | | semmickphoto wrote: | | I have learned that on people cropping body parts is accepted because the human brain completes it. |
That may be but there are rules concerning the cropping of body parts if they must be cropped. I'm pretty sure cropping part of the human brain goes against those rules. If your going to crop the brain, better to crop the whole brain like maybe when you want to only focus on the face or the eye.
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I am sorry but check out any fashion magazine. Chopping the top of a head off is currently so common as to be the norm. And when I check the internet on cropping body parts, cropping the head is considered to be completely acceptable. |
I have a model with chopped top of the head and it sells quite well. This is usually done when doing closeup portraits. It looks ok if done properly, but your picture of a boy with the head chopped makes me feel uncomfortable since it is not a closeup.
Apart from that, I tried to remake my model's image making her isolated on black, but with chopped top of the head. It looked cool to me, though reviewers thought differently and I got a rejection.
Taras
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hhltdave5
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 24311
Location: Our Stock, Food & Portrait photography books at www.rindersmithphotography.com
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:39 pm
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| semmickphoto wrote: | | dustine wrote: | | semmickphoto wrote: | | I have learned that on people cropping body parts is accepted because the human brain completes it. |
That may be but there are rules concerning the cropping of body parts if they must be cropped. I'm pretty sure cropping part of the human brain goes against those rules. If your going to crop the brain, better to crop the whole brain like maybe when you want to only focus on the face or the eye.
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I am sorry but check out any fashion magazine. Chopping the top of a head off is currently so common as to be the norm. And when I check the internet on cropping body parts, cropping the head is considered to be completely acceptable. |
The cropping of a head for example is done constantly and used on a consistent basis in portraiture whether it be for a magazine or other outlet. The point we are trying to make is that there is a difference between what a reviewer will accept and what the final outcome is in the periodical. That is why we often say shoot the shot uncropped and let the ad director crop it the way they want.
The object here is to get the image approved so it can be purchased by someone to use and crop if they so desire. If you are shooting directly for a magazine or a client who wants it cropped a certain way then that is what you give them.
Now, is that to say if you submit an image that has been cropped that the reviewers will reject it automatically? No it does not mean that. But if it is not done correctly then or you get a reviewer who thinks its CV is limited because it was cropped then you stand a chance of getting it rejected. You have to separate the acceptance of the shot and its final use.
If you look at Laurin's portfolio you will see that one of his trademarks is the cropping off of the model. He knows how to do it and when to do it.
So when talking about cropping part of the model's head off there is no one right or wrong way to do it. The difference is that what many are trying to say is that there is the process of getting an image accepted and then the issue of how the buyer wants to use it. You can always crop down but you can't really add to something that is not there.
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semmickphoto
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 6632
Location: Stuck between a shutter and a hard place
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:17 pm
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Hi Dave,
I acknowledged the fact that cropping for stock is not favourable. I was merely replying to Dustine who said cropping of the head is against the rules.
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pharm
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9423
Location: Never quite sure
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:33 pm
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I NEVER crop a head in a shoot. This image, for example. I had one eye closed and thought I had all of her in the frame. I should have opened the other eye. ;)
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dustine
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 925
Location: You're in my viewfinder...
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:58 pm
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No cropping rules are hard and fast (we all know some rules need to be broken from time to time) but I was taught as guidelines in most cases, cropping at the forehead is preferred, rather then the top of the head, and to avoid cropping at the joints, or the fingers and toes.
I do, however, join everyone else in saying, for stock, if you can avoid cropping people at all, that's best.
Shucks Pharm, your model is so pretty I don't think it would matter however she was cropped.
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marcusvdt
Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 1252
Location: www.flashbackfoto.com.br or www.facebook.com/flashbackfoto
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:41 am
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I have some cropped heads and I agree with the other that the op made it the wrong way. If focus was ok and if you have enough megapixels, you could try to crop the entire body of the kid turning the photo into a closeup.
Hope this examples inspire you in some way...
A baby thinking why her head have been cropped
A woman thinking easily because now she has less brain with her cropped head.
A man who lost his head thinking how to properly crop a head.
A mad photographer adjusting his brain so he could crop heads correctly in the future.
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dustine
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 925
Location: You're in my viewfinder...
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:06 pm
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LOL Msrcus! Ooooo yuck on that last one.
As for rule breakers, I'd have never cropped at the chin, but it sure worked in that 2nd image's case. And how!
Loved your captions.
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jeffbanke
Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 17518
Location: www.xlr8photo.com, The real California
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:22 pm
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Re the cropping issue, what it comes down to is asking yourself the question, "Do I want to limit the way anyone can use this image?" if so, then crop it any way you want, if you want to allow a graphic designer/art director to be able to use an image sans crop, or cropped in a different way to that which YOU have in mind, then best don't crop.
As for cropped images selling, I am sure that they do sell and it simply means that others agree on the way you have cropped the image, so ask yourself another question "How many more images of this subject would I have sold if it were not cropped?"
Food for thought :-)
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