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aleximages · Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 13

Hi everyone, does anybody know why this image would get rejected for trademark issues? I redrew this in ballpoint pen along two others from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass and submitted them with my first ten, and all three got rejected for trademark issues. Isn't all of Lewis Carroll's work and John Tenniel's illustrations in the public domain? I thought anything published before 1923 was automatically in the public domain. I've contacted them twice but it's been two and a half weeks now and I'm losing hope. Thank you for any help. Alex.

evaners · Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:49 pm

I was also of the belief that all the Alice stuff was public domain.

Here are two possibilities:
- The reviewer didn't know about these being public domain, and SS admin is simply being slow to respond to your message.

- Since you redrew them with a different style (very nice, BTW) from the original, it could be that SS is worried about copyright regarding the Disney version of Alice. Doesn't look like it to me, but who knows?

aleximages · Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 13

Thanks for responding evaners, I made sure not to use any of Disney's versions because I believe they own thier own 'versions'. Also, thanks for the compliment, it means a lot coming from you. How long should I wait for a response? I feel like they forgot about me. Here's the second one I submitted (i want someone to see them), it's 'Pool of Tears'.

woodyone · Joined: 24 Sep 2009 Posts: 430 Location: Here

Pure guess... Probably safe enough on the Lewis Carroll & Disney front but the reviewer may not be taking the chance they are based on a later representation of the story that may be in copyright, if you get my drift. Really nice work - personally couldn't draw a straight line but I do like nice work :)

aleximages · Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 13

Thanks woodyone, I'm pretty sure I can prove these images are mine but how do I challenge the decision? Do I even get a chance to prove it? As a sidenote there is a contributer that sells the images right out of the books as vectors, exactly the same as they appear in the book. I'm a little sad now...it took months to do these. Thanks for your input.

alison1414 · Joined: 21 May 2008 Posts: 3078

Finally someone who can draw. You should get an agent and do illustrations, especially for children's books.

aleximages · Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 13

Thanks alison1414, I actually want to do the whole series, I figured that if I got accepted I would be more motivated to do more of them. Awefully nice of you to say. Thanks for the comments.

evaners · Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:52 pm

Actually, there is an illustrator here on SS who has reproduced all the John Tenniel illustrations. So I don't understand why they would have a problem with your versions. He has faithfully re-drawn them all as vectors, which is quite a tedious process.

Here's a link to his port.

aleximages · Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 13

Thanks eveners, I just wanted to say I love your retro patterns from the 50's and 60's, it truly captures the era. I can see why you have EL's on your borders. I wouldn't wonder why if I were you, they're that good.

daemys · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:27 am

Make illustrations for traditional fairy tales or ancient myths. Those undoubtedly are public domain.

aleximages · Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 13

Thanks daemys, unfortunately I seem to be invisible everywhere I go, I thought I'd have a fair shot here. Thanks for the support bro, I'm not as depressed as I was.

thomasamby · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:08 am

If I was you I would definitely try resubmitting these with a note to the reviewer explaining in detail why you think they should not be subject to a trademark rejection. I would provide links to other people's interpretations of Alice, explain that Alice is in the public domain and if possible upload a couple of sketches to an image hosting agency or your personal website, then provide a link (just to prove you're the author). It's tiresome but it's nothing compared to the time and effort you put into these, and I really think they deserve to be in the library - incredible work!

You submitted them with your first ten - what about the other seven, did you pass the test? I'm sorry but I don't remember the requirements for passing. If you're not yet accepted as a contributor I would wait with doing as described above and submit other illustrations for the test, just to be on the safe side.

aleximages · Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 13

Thanks thomasamby, that sounds like excellent advice, just what I was looking for, some kind of strategy. Unfortunately I don't have a website, or a portfolio, that's why I wanted to join here, to finally build some kind of portfolio. Also one of my others did get legitimately rejected, I thought it was 'soft' but they called it 'blurry', but after that, I was past my limit (seven have to make it) so I never even found out if the others were even good enough, because my Alice's took up three right there. It took me six months just to get these together, then I finally joined in November. You've really given me some ammo, thanks. I'm going to post my last image for you (Alice playing croquet), sorry the resolution is so low, none of these are watermarked. You've really been helpful. Alex

woodyone · Joined: 24 Sep 2009 Posts: 430 Location: Here

I do a lot of stuff based on bible stories, fairy tales, nurserery rhymes etc - no problem and nothing like the skill you're showing here. Thomas' suggestion seems like the best course.

peteklinger · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:55 pm

Show that your source material isn't modern and copyrighted. Here's what I've gotten when I was on the fringe or they questioned a submission.

When submitting public domain images, submit them for commercial use and provide us with the source name, country, year, and creator and a property release.

So for example, an out of copyright book, (assuming yours was Before 1923, USA) you would have, Book Title, Country, Year, original artists name.

I suppose your own property release, stating it's an original drawing, since you are the artist? (I never did understand property releases for PD images, maybe someone else has a clear answer?)

In other cases you may have the publisher included. If the author isn't the artist, that would be a better citation?

Hope that helps. I did send in a revised information for an image, made a note to the reviewer that I had modified the source information. It was accepted.

This falls under the other part about Do Not re-submit materials without telling the reviewer.

There are some people who would get a rejection and just wait a couple of weeks and send the batch in again, hoping for better results. The backlog for review is big enough without people just recycling rejected images, and wasting review time, getting them rejected again.

Include a note stating that you modified the attribution, and you should be covered.

From Guidelines: http://submit.shutterstock.com/guidelines.mhtml

"5. Submitting an image that has already been rejected without writing a note to the reviewer explaining why the image(s) is being resubmitted. Resubmitting an image without making the appropriate corrections. "