Shutterstock Photographer Forum :: View topic

willall · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:47 pm

I've been trying to do more street photography recently and I was just wondering what the deal is with selling prints? Obviously with stock everything needs a release form, or to be sold as editorial, but if I was selling prints myself or from my website would it be OK? Does anyone else sell prints from their own website? Thanks.

hhltdave5 · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:42 pm

Whether you sell prints on your own or on a stock site the protections offered under the copyright and trademark laws are the same. The fact of making money from something is the issue. It is less likely that a corporation etc would see your prints selling if you do them on your own but if they do see it you will most likely get a letter telling you to stop. The only difference between the two is that if you sell them on your own you do not have to go through the approval process and follow the policies of SS or some other stock site.

willall · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:59 pm

I thought as much. However whenever I go to a photo exhibition, there seem to be a lot of street photography included. Is it more in terms of focus? A general crowd shot, rather than singling out a particular individual?

triceratops · Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 7933 Location: The other Nevada

Just keep one thought in mind ... it's only illegal if they catch you.

hhltdave5 · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:17 pm

yaromir · Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 2591 Location: NCG

I don't really agree with you Dave.
If you take a photo and sell it as an art and not in commercial context you don't need any agreement from a "subject", even a Pope.

hhltdave5 · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:04 pm

mikenorton · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:47 pm

It seems that I remember reading in a photojournalism book that if you are on the public right of way you can shoot what ever you want. Even shoot the inside of a house through someone's open window, as long as they opened the window. If they don't want you photographing they should close the blinds. Because of this we have the paparazzi. Do they get releases? I think you can sell your images as prints without releases as long as they are not used by the customer to sell a product or service. A print to be displayed on a wall is different than video that is to be shown on a television network. As I remember there are restrictions about shooting around hospitals, something about a patients wright to privacy. Of course I read this book in the 1980s, before the paparazzi helped to cause a certain car wreck in Paris. So everything might have changed.

barnabychambers · Joined: 23 Jan 2009 Posts: 280

peteklinger · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:58 am

hhltdave5 · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:00 am

Yes, the law does state that you can TAKE photos if you are on public property and you do not violate any other laws or ordinances either criminal or civil but you cannot MAKE money from those images without authorization.

Stock sites do not just have releases just because the person in the image does not like how it is used it is because it is the law under the various copyright and trademark protections. It is about making money from someone elses work work, efforts or in the case of people their identityt.

Even when it comes to the paparazzi there are laws that cover their actions and how they can obtain an image and how it can be used. They are also used in publications which are considered an editorial endeavor.

When it comes to the expectation of privacy that too is not as cut and dry as one may think. When I was on the police department we had to go before a judge to get search warrants for homes even after we may have seen something that looked suspicious. The expectation of privacy also states that privacy is there as long as the person doing the looking does not use "special equipment." That special equipment can be a camera. Getting something this way is called illegal search and is covered by the 4th amendment.

Copyright protections have been around long before stock sites were ever invented. They were not invented because of stock sites they were created to protect the persons and property of the individual or corporation.

All of this is why I say that these protections are not simple and cut and dry. They are complex, change from country to country, are always in flux and are continually brought up for litigation to try and clarify just what is and what is not covered.

This does not mean that every building or work of art etc is taboo. There are exceptions covered under the various laws as I mentioned before when it comes to architectural property. There are also times when art can be used if it has moved into public domain. The point is that you have to know which you can and cannot legally photograph and use to make a profit or monetary gain.

wysiwygfoto · Joined: 04 Jun 2011 Posts: 58

Dave keeps mentioning copyright....the question has nothing to do with copyright. The question is "can you sell fine art prints of people without a model release?". This is a right to privacy/right to publicity issue. Essentially, the correct answer is (at least in the U.S.), it depends on where you live.

Generally speaking, yes, you do need a release from the subject of the photograph to sell it as a print.

No, you don't need a release of the subject o the photograph if you are using it to inform or entertain (in an Editorial fashion).

Here is a guide for Editorial use (with state by state references)

http://www.rcfp.org/photographers-guide-privacy

and here's a quick write up

http://www.editorialphoto.com/resources/6-05_LegalNews-%20right_publicity.pdf

...and yes, you need a model release to use the image on your own website or in your own portfolio...unless it is used in an editorial manner.

hhltdave5 · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:05 am

yaromir · Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 2591 Location: NCG

:)

http://www.mcmahanphoto.com/zz0015--pope-benedict-xvi-portrait-photo-print.html

http://www.art.com/asp/search_do.asp/_/posters.htm?ui=A8175423A4AA4DFDB05E7B985A0988F3&searchstring=obama

angelawaye · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:49 am

Anytime money is exchanged it changes everything. Even if it is street art, money changes it all and that person will hunt you down and want a piece of the pie. I would follow the same rules for the most part as here.