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triceratops · Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 7856 Location: The other Nevada

A bit of historical trivia:

In the days of sailing ships and pirates it was necessary to keep a good supply of cannon balls near the cannon on old war ships. But how to prevent them from rolling about the deck was the problem. The best storage method devised was to stack them as a square based pyramid, with one ball on top, resting on four, resting on nine, which rested on sixteen.
Thus, a supply of 30 cannon balls could be stacked in a small area right next to the cannon. There was only one problem -- how to prevent the bottom layer from sliding/rolling from under the others.

The solution was a metal plate with 16 round indentations, called, for reasons unknown, a Monkey. But if this plate were made of iron, the iron balls would quickly rust to it. The solution to the rusting problem was to make them of brass - hence, Brass Monkeys.

Few landlubbers realize that brass contracts much more and much faster than iron when chilled. Consequently, when the temperature dropped too far, the brass indentations would shrink so much that the iron cannon balls would come right off the monkey.

Thus, it was quite literally, cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey. And all this time, you thought that was just a vulgar expression, didn't you?

PaulCowan · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 4181 Location: Evolving

I'm not sure I believe you but it's a nice yarn.

I note with interest, though, that the coefficient of expansion of brass is 19ppm/C while iron is only 11ppm/c, which does add credence to the tale.

PaulCowan · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 4181 Location: Evolving

Oh, dear, a bit of a debunker, I'm afraid:

The first recorded use of the term "brass monkey" appears to dates to 1857 when it was used in an apparently vulgar context by C.A. Abbey in his book Before the Mast, where on page 108 it says "It would freeze the tail off a brass monkey." [Source: Lighter, J.E. ed. Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang. (New York: Random House, 1994): 262.]

It has often been claimed that the "brass monkey" was a holder or storage rack in which cannon balls (or shot) were stacked on a ship. Supposedly when the "monkey" with its stack of cannon ball became cold, the contraction of iron cannon balls led to the balls falling through or off of the "monkey." This explanation appears to be a legend of the sea without historical justification. In actuality, ready service shot was kept on the gun or spar decks in shot racks (also known as shot garlands in the Royal Navy) which consisted of longitudinal wooden planks with holes bored into them, into which round shot (cannon balls) were inserted for ready use by the gun crew. These shot racks or garlands are discussed in: Longridge, C. Nepean. The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships. (Annapolis MD: Naval Institute Press, 1981): 64. A top view of shot garlands on the upper deck of a ship-of-the-line is depicted in The Visual Dictionary of Ships and Sailing. New York: Dorling Kindersley, 1991): 17.

triceratops · Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 7856 Location: The other Nevada

Well, maybe it is a vulgar expression after all. I'll have to pass this on to my source for the tale. I doubt he'll be thrilled. BTW, I worked with cryogenics for several decades so I knew they physics of the tale was correct, if not the accuracy. LOL

ruxpriencdiam · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:24 pm

So what about balls of steel?

jatrax · Joined: 07 May 2011 Posts: 242 Location: Pacific Northwest

I was under the impression that those cannon balls were kept either in wooden racks or if stacked were supported by intricately woven ropework that created nests for each ball. There was no metal to metal contact and the ropework allowed for quite a bit of pitch in the ship without things coming loose.

But the brass monkey story is much cooler.

kenny123 · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:08 pm

kenny123 · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:12 pm

ruxpriencdiam · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:46 pm

kenny123 · Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:04 am

kenk · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2935

In the US, it's "brass balls" to mean audacity.

Time to pimp!

ruxpriencdiam · Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:11 am

ajancso · Joined: 18 May 2009 Posts: 1889 Location: Right Behind You

I love these stories about the origin of words or expressions, even if they are sometimes not true

I have an interesting on about the word "Sincere" or "Sincerely".

This word comes from two latin words - "Sine" or without, and the word "cera" or wax. Sine Cera = without wax.

Some think that marble workers would cover imperfections in the stone with wax. Consequently, if something was sine cera, it was genuine.

As they say in Italy, "se non è vero, è ben trovato"

canalenes · Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 2204 Location: Orygun

mauijon · Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 4277 Location: Maui, Hawaii

The usual story on "fording" a river is because of Henry Ford's Model T car which could ford (or cross) a stream.

The word "ford" and "fording" appears in Robert Louis Stevenson's Travels with a Donkey, published in 1779--long before old Henry was born.

Also (above) those steel balls might be Ben Wah balls. Just sayin".