Shutterstock Photographer Forum :: View topic

mikeledray · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:42 am

one more think I can think of is

someone buys one of our images for even the regular cheap price (and we get up to .38 cents, or what ever from which ever site)
once they have it, its Gone! They have a Digital Copy that they can in essence do as they please with it.
I have found my images for sale on Ebay as Mouse Pads prints and other items, For Free (free to copy and paste full size) on web sites, and even on Jewlery.

It can be really unnerving to find and see your image(s) out there for Free or used in ways we did not expect or think about

I too have Many of My images on Cafe Press (fifi is my #1 seller over there also)

Its the nature of This Business and since Al Gore invented the Internet (cough cough,)it has taken off in directions that nobody ever imagined.
It is the Modern day Wild Wild West of the US 1800's full of Unexplored Fronteers and Unexpected discoveries and inventions even still yet to be created and found.

I dont have an answer to any of this, even Rights Managed images are in the same boat I think these days, once Someone has a digital image they can put it out there and Anyone can copy it and use it anywhere and If they get caught they can say "oops sorry, I thought it was free for the taking"

I hope you get this figured out my friend
it is frustrating as all heck

oh on a side note
Flikr and the "Big G." (not supposed to mention other stock sites names) are joining forces to start a new Stock Site I got news today about

Where this is going to end up in the future I think is that images will be even Cheaper if not Free from the general public just happy to see their images in use (if they are lucky with their name attached as image credit)as royalty free and cost free ego photography

Like I said earlier
Perhaps We should start Our Own Print On Demand Site
it cant be That Hard can it?
I dont know
if anyone has any ideas on how to do that or links to a print on demand site that takes images and gives us a commission please pm me
thanks

prairierattler · Joined: 23 Nov 2005 Posts: 1546

I completely agree that you should be chagrined at seeing your $1.60 sale be resold in a fine art print for $150 (or whatever), but it's a little over the top just to claim that he's making money on someone else's talent. After all, if you agreed to sell EL's and someone else is talented enough at business and marketing and internet delivery to attract high priced buyers buying prints of those EL shots, then more power to them. Fundamentally, it's no different than Nike selling $2 shoes for $120. The ignorant laborer in Malaysia doesn't have the marketing expertise or capital of Nike and so Nike resells the shoes at a huge profit. If you want to avoid being the ignorant Malaysian in this scenario then stop selling EL's and go market your work in a way that draws the buyers at the prices this guy is getting (or purportedly getting--- we don't know how successful he is). If all it takes is a $200 website and 3 minutes time, then why the @#$% aren't you all doing it? The reason why you're not is because it's more difficult and requires a little more marketing/business/internet moxie than you might think. The "if you build it they will come" approach doesn't generally work. Many of you have websites already. So how well does your work sell there? If this guy's making a go of it buying EL's for resale, then I give him some credit. He's found a need and is filling it for a profit in an apparently very legal way.

debljames · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:18 am

evaners · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:32 am

I only do vector art for microstock (yeah, I know, the unwanted stepchild of stock), but let me throw in my 2 cents' worth.

For illustrators, there is sometimes a fine line between "art" and "illustration". When it's art, there's something you see or imagine, that you just need to capture. And if someone else also sees it as art, they may want to have it also. Illustration is usually filling a need that exists, creating something that you believe people are looking for.

Personally, I'm not trying to create art here. I do art for myself. What I do here is try to create marketable graphics. Things I feel a designer may be able to use in their design. Something that can be a piece of their design. I know this may be different to a large degree for you photographers, but my point is I won't be heartbroken by seeing my best stuff making bushels of moolah for someone else.

Mind you, I'm not just trying to sell cheap crap here, either. I put a lot of time and effort into trying to make my stuff somehow different from all the other stuff out there. But for microstock, I'm putting a little more emphasis on quantity, rather than quality.

gregor · Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 917 Location: Netherlands

Susan · Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 5639

You hit on something here Ed. Laurin would you feel differently if you were doing the exploiting?

"Some are feeling a little bit exploited"

rinder99 · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:55 am

I Totally understand RT's view. And yes there are certain Images I have removed the EL option from a long time ago and of course I understand this is the way it is for probably a lot longer than Most of you, also I don't think it even matters, If there gonna do it, there gonna do it.That doesn't mean it's right and thinking that "Thats the way it is so you better get used to it" Just doesn't wash with me and a lot and I mean A LOT of others.

Im saying we can change this if we all care and Im not talking about anything More than something Like "A super extended license" to use our stuff, Print it and sell it. Thats it.I've been talking to the owner of this site quite a bit, He's a real good guy and a straight shooter and did absolutely Nothing wrong and quite a good Photographer Himself. I don't know what he paid for my Image and don't care ,Also Im not that concerned about What I got paid being Non-exclusive with them But Im sure it wasn't much and Yes, thats what I agreed to. I actually thought I had removed the EL from that image like I have about 25 others of mine.This one Unfortunetly slipped through the cracks.
Those of you that don't do this for a Living and I don't mean just RF stock or Have work that won't be used in this way probably wonder why this is an issue.I personally have gone after no less than 25 different People selling My stuff as prints on E-bay,Cafepress and all kinds of stuff.The last one was in germany and with the help of varius I was able to get all the profit paid to me.If ya knew me and I mean really knew me, it's not about the money, it's the principle and I personnaly think it sucks on the part of the agencies for this one area.

He bought all these images more than a year ago to start this business.The good thing I think he agrees as an artist Himself for the need of a "Super Extended License"

Im sure there are tens if not hundreds or thousands of places our work is used Improperly and I understand this completely and 99% of the time I've been able to confront the people, they said they didn't know.

I also think that part of this is our own fault and we really have no one to blame, I've personally seen my stuff in t-shirt shops, Home decorater stores on sheets, hanging on a wall framed and selling for $29.00 at those Bed /Bath stores.Probably all printed in china or somewhere. I Nor you or any site has the ability to stop this, I let that stuff go a long time ago. We all know that anyone can take a small file and print a poster, it wont look that good But, it's done all the time, You should have seen My Football Image printed on a poster I saw once.My God, it was horrible.

Selling Prints of my work has long been 50 times more Lucrative than any stock Image I've sold and continues today to be a big part of my business, When I came over from film it was a huge part of My business printing for me and quite a few others, I gave all that up 5 years ago and now have 2 authorized printers that print and ship for me.One in California and One in Toronto.

I probably Get bummed about this more than most because for the last 30 years I've seen my copyrights used and abused by so many I can't tell ya and still today it goes on and on even More and More and I've spent Huge sums of money for my share of performance and Mechanical royalty Rights. it's basically over now, Theres a site you can go and DL any song I wrote for free.Had to let that go also.

So, In conclusion, If ya wanna do something Lets write some letters to the agencies, If it doesn't affect you or you don't care then, Well Maybe some day it will.We will NEVER EVER stop 90% of this But maybe we can make it harder for those that want to de-value our work.And Im only talking reselling Prints thats all.Im satisfied with every other aspect of this business.I don't think it's to late for change.....Anyone else?

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rinder99 · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:20 pm

rinder99 · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:22 pm

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rinder99 · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:39 pm

Totally agree, TOTALLY. the horse is out.Thats what I did also for many years at gallery shows, Numbered prints. My mistake was uploading them as im sure many have done.They've sold in Huge numbers. No problem, Glad to share with the world for 38 cents a pop.Am I just being to Old school about the print Issue? Do I just let it go and not upload My best work for people to see and enjoy? and forget about Print sales, I sell my stuff for
$90.00 to $450.00 depending on size and printed the best way possible. Most of what I sell is not offered on stock sites so Im protected, But your probably right to just let it go as it's to late for a few pieces.Oh well, I can shoot more...LOL